Why I fail as an Austenite

[litlover12]

I've finished another viewing of the 1995 P&P, which I love. But oh, how the second proposal scene bugs me. And it bugs me that it bugs me. Because I don't want it to bug me. It's very sweet and the actors are terrific and their facial expressions are all that could be desired. But they don't kiss, and they don't touch -- they look away from each other and keep walking! It drives me NUTS! I'm going "Kiss her! Kiss her!!" like that nosy old man in It's a Wonderful Life. I know this is Austen and she's prim and proper to the nth degree, and the whole thing is true to her vision, but for heaven's sake. . . . couldn't they at least hold hands?

Of course, it's not much better than what happens in the book. I love Austen, I really do. She was a genius and many of her books are right up there among my favorites. But her love scenes are just so . . . unsatisfying.

Comments

[ever-maedhros.livejournal.com]

I actually enjoy the fact that Austen's proposal scenes don't always end in make-out sessions, but that's probably because I'm a hopeless unromantic.

Perhaps it would help you enjoy the scene more if you think of them as wanting to wait until they're 100% sure they're alone. For all they know, Kitty could be lurking behind in the pretty scenery, spying on them. I know I wouldn't want a giggly little sister watching me with my fiancee. Just my two cents. :D

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

Oh good! I'm not the only one who appreciates lack of make-out sessions! :-)

[ever-maedhros.livejournal.com]

Yay! I felt as if I was the only one, too!

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

Haha!

I actually am still immature enough to not totally appreciate kissing. I've gotten to where I'm not grossed out, but I don't miss it when it isn't there. :-) So lack thereof in Jane Austen films doesn't bother me at all. I just need the words.

On a random note, have you seen the Pride and Prejudice from 1980? In my opinion it is much better than the 1995 one, but it's not as flashy, and no one seems to know about it.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

I haven't, but I've heard about it at Jane Austen Today. Maybe I'll see it someday.

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

I tend not to think so, unless blocks of wood are what get your engine goin'...but I do have friends who love it.

[caspiandorrit.livejournal.com]

*sadly sighs* In this case I fear Mr. Darcy is just not a PDA kind of man.

[neemarita.livejournal.com]

All I can do is sigh at your av. Colin Firth! (Why is it that every actor I swoon at is a Brit? Why?!)

[ever-maedhros.livejournal.com]

Because Brits are just more swoon-worthy! :D

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

This makes me giggle, because I am the complete opposite! I get absolutely LIVID sometimes when Austen adaptations include what I feel to be unnecessary kissy-face scenes. It's strange, because I'm not at ALL a history buff, but it bothers me when scriptwriters/directors ignore period accuracies in favor of romancing the characters.

Have you ever seen The Holiday? I like to think of the scene you described kind of the way I picture Jack Black and Kate Winslet's characters in a scene toward the end of that movie. Elizabeth and Darcy are totally squeeing/fist-pumping on the inside. :D

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't seen it, but I like the imagery!

I don't really want them to be untrue to Austen; it's just . . . they look away from each other! Argghh! It just kills me! :-) If she could even just take his arm or something . . .

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

Well, if you don't mind being spoiled just the teeniest bit for a five-year-old movie, watch the first minute of this youtube vid because this is the scene I'm talking about! :D I don't know why, but in their own respectable, socially graceful way, I can totally see Elizabeth and Darcy all, "OMGSQUEE!" and "FISTPUMP of EPIC WIN!"

Man, I really want to draw this, now...

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

:-D

I'm so glad you gave that link. I hate Diaz/Law side of that film, but the Winslet/Black romance IS WIN!

AND THAT MOMENT SHOWS EXACTLY WHY!

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

YOU AND I ARE EXACTLY ALIKE in this respect! :D I also can't stand the Cameron and Jude plot, with one exception being any scene featuring his children - because those scenes, I think, are precious.

I mainly watch this movie for Kate and Jack... and for the music, which is EPIC and fills me with tons of dramatic glee.

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I like the little kid bits, too... but they are ruined by the rest of their storyline...

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

I wish their relationship had been as innocent and emotional as the Iris/Miles plot. If Jude's character had still been in a semi-state of grieving and had gone to his sister for support, but found Cameron's character instead, and their friendship had grown from her putting aside her selfish whims to provide some advice and support until he realizes that she has sort of inadvertently become a part of his family... yadda, yadda, etc, and so forth. I just found the whole drunken one-night-stand thing too sudden and laughably unbelievable given each character's "development" up until that part of the movie. It made me roll my eyes like ickle Ronnie-kins.

Eh, sorry for the ramble. I sort of spend a lot of time re-writing movies in my head. :D

[goldvermilion87.livejournal.com]

No, I COMPLETELY agree. I guess I think that if you are going to make it all dramatic and emotional you can. You can't have a drunken one night stand (plus, really, MOST of their relationship was about sex) and then all of a sudden surprise the audience with "actually he's really deep and noble and a good dad and awwwwwww"! That just doesn't work in my book.

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

Completely agreed. Although I think it bothered me more on her part than on his. I have no trouble believing that he's been cavorting around as a means of escaping his tumultuous emotions and the difficulties of being a single father, even if I don't LIKE it. It seemed at least somewhat believable, even if it wasn't spelled out in the movie, that he's been trucking along doing the best he can, but he's also hitting this wall of emotional and mental fatigue... and also letting his fears (of somehow messing things up with his kids as they get older and things grow more complicated) get the better of him, to the point that he just has to snap and be the exact opposite of everything he is at home.

But I just couldn't get over her and her little, "could we do that again," after making it clear she wanted nothing to do with men. It seemed to come OUT OF NOWHERE, even taking rebounds and people-not-really-knowing-what-they-want into consideration.

And YES, the fact that their "relationship" was all about the smex is probably what bothered me most. Start things with a one-night stand if you absolutely must, but bring something tangible into the relationship fast after that to make it honestly believable.

But I guess this is why they say sex sells. Blech.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DRAW THAT. It would be awesome!

[sylverwind.livejournal.com]

Heee, I think I may have to! :D

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

I confess that there are things I like about the hatchet-job, but all that mushiness at the end is not one of them. Funny how it went rushing to the opposite extreme, isn't it? :-) From not even a touch in the miniseries, to eating each other's tonsils in the movie!

"Methinks Jane couldn't write good love scenes because as a spinster who was never around men, she didn't know how one would go, since they didn't have television in those days..."

I can understand that (I can even identify with it). I can't help wishing, though, that she'd gotten a married friend or relative to share a few tips! She'll write something like "She said just what a lady ought to say" or "He expressed himself warmly," and I'm all, "JANE, YOU ARE BEING COY AGAIN. STOP IT."

[jadepilot.livejournal.com]

I always want them to brush hands or fingers in that scene. And you're right it is truly an Austen scene and well done by the actors. My cheeks are always aching at the end of it as I try to contain my huge smile.

I think I have come to appreciate it, but still wish for something more demonstrative. ;)

[velle.livejournal.com]

I also really wanted them to kiss in that scene!!!

[msantimacassar.livejournal.com]

It bugs me every time! I mean, I can understand that there wouldn't be any passionate making out, but a tender exchange of glances? Taking his arm? Sheesh, Jane... Give your fans a break!

[jobey-in-error.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I must also align myself against you... I like the severe restraint. I don't pretend to know enough about history to say whether it's accurate, but it's a fascinating glimpse into another version of romance.

Have you ever read Louisa May Alcott's evasion of a love scene in An Old-Fashioned Girl?

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love "An Old-Fashioned Girl"!! It was one of my favorite books growing up. I don't remember that love scene being quite as evasive as Austen, though my memory may be faulty. I'll have to go dig the book out again. (And when I was a kid, I was more squeamish about kissing scenes then I am now, so I probably didn't care if it WAS evasive. :-) )

[jobey-in-error.livejournal.com]

Oh, Alcott is much more warm-blooded than Austen, it's more a tasteful fade-to-black than an evasion--when Tom declares himself he actually holds out his arms, and Polly falls into them "without a word." Still, I couldn't help thinking of what Alcott writes after that:

"Never mind what happened for a little bit. Love scenes, if genuine, are indescribable, for to those who have enacted them, the most elaborate description seems tame, and to those who have not, the simplest picture seems overdone. So romancers had better let imagination paint for them that which is above all art and leave their lovers to themselves during the happiest minutes of their lives."

Very wise, but unfortunately fiction as a whole can only use this disclaimer once, so the rest of us will have to muddle on without breaking the fourth wall. ;)

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

Okay, now I remember. Yes, there we at least get an embrace! And I remember something a little later in that scene about "a pause for refreshments," which is a rather fun way of putting it. :-)

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, the scriptwriter for the series has said multiple times that that proposal scene was rushed in writing and shooting, and he wishes he could redo it.

However, I must disagree on Austen as inferior in love scenes. To me, descriptions of kissing and such in Austen's acerbic style would be very odd, and the understated/unstated passion is all the more powerful for being implied rather than shown.